On Wed, 10 Sep 2003, Danny A Jones wrote:
> Thanks for the suggestions. I think that I'll hold off on writing the
> meta-move logic. I'm quite happy with the atomic-move version. Besides,
> I want to see what kind of results I get if I modify it to use a
> weighted search algorithm.
>
Nice.
> It will be a simple task for me to write a post-processor to remove the
> auto moves from FCS's output. You don't need to take the time to do it.
> Thanks though for the offer!
>
OK. Looking forward to it.
> I call it a (near-)optimal solver because I actually have two versions.
> The full version, BFS-500, consumes 1.5 hours and uses 750-MB of memory
> to do an extensive optimal search.
Yaw Karamba!
> The scaled down version, BFS-020,
> takes 3 minutes and uses 60-MB of memory. BFS-020 may not be as
> thorough, but it almost always produced identical results during
> testing. Of the few times when it didn't produce identical results, it
> was typically off by one or two moves. I encountered only one comparison
> run where it was off by three moves. So, that's why I call BFS-020 a
> (near-)optimal solver.
>
Ah hah.
> Thank you for offering to post my solver on your web site! However,
> after giving more thought to distributing my solver, I think it's best
> that I complete the software documentation and then create a web page on
> my ISP to distribute everything. Since the source isn't very large, it
> shouldn't take long to complete the documentation.
>
Looking forward to it, too.
Let me know if you need any help in HTML design. I don't think you should
have. It's much less complicated than writing a solver for Freecell... ;-)
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
> Regards, Danny
>
> Shlomi Fish wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Danny A Jones wrote:
> >
> > > Thank You for the correction and a better declaration of FCS's
> > > capabilities. I haven't tried all of its command-line options, so I'm
> > > definitely not fully aware of its capabilities. Yes, you should
> > > certainly be proud of it!!! It's obvious that a lot of hard work went
> > > into its development.
> > >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > > Yes/No on the FCS+FcPro glue comment. I've spent a lot of time with
> > > FcPro because I use it to check that my solutions are valid. When I use
> > > FCS in FcPro, it produces a listing on the screen that appears to be
> > > identical to that from stand-alone FCS -- including auto moves. If I hit
> > > "Home" and then "End", then it will show a shorter solution -- sans the
> > > auto moves (?).
> >
> > I suppose I can construct a processor to process the FCS moves, throught
> > the FCS-FcPro glue. Or integrate it into the core FCS program. This will
> > make it easier for you to analyze its solutions from the command line.
> > Note that its solutions are not near-optimal unless used with the --method
> > bfs option.
> >
> > > However, on several occasions, FcPro has locked up when
> > > I hit "End" ... and I had to forcibly abort it. I keep meaning to see
> > > which results are listed when the output is directed to disk. I have a
> > > long "To Do" list for investigating/understanding FCS!
> > >
> >
> > OK.
> >
> > > I'm glad that you aren't upset that I'm receiving questions in this
> > > group. However, I understand that this group is dedicated to FCS and I
> > > don't want to detract much from that!
> > >
> >
> > Actually, it is not particularly dedicated to FCS. Its definition is:
> >
> > <<<
> > This group is dedicated to the discussion of the usage and development of
> > the Freecell Solver program and library.
> > ...
> > General discussion of computerized techniques to solve Card Solitaire
> > games is also welcome.
> > >>>
> >
> > Or maybe I should change it to make it less Freecell Solver-centric. But
> > I'd still have to keep the name.
> >
> > > My ISP allows its members to create web pages and provides ftp access,
> > > but I never went into HTML. I have friends who did it for a living, but
> > > I doubted there would be enough interest in my solver to bother them to
> > > set it up for me.
> >
> > You should learn HTML. It's a very useful skill, and very easy to learn.
> > (I first learned it by reading a short tutorial on an Internet magazine).
> > Then you'll be independant of my cooperation in publishing your solver.
> >
> > I can also comment that maintaining your web-site has proven to be quite
> > an experience, as many people contacted me in regard to things I placed
> > there. A weblog is also nice in this regard.
> >
> > > If you'd like to add my solver as a "by-the-way" entry
> > > on your web site, I'd be honored to provide it!
> >
> > OK, send it to me.
> >
> > > It's a command-line
> > > program that can currently be distributed as a binary with sample input
> > > and output.
> >
> > OK.
> >
> > > Since I just recently completed it, the source needs lots of
> > > additional documentation before it's worthy of distribution -- and I
> > > wouldn't end up embarrassed.
> >
> > Don't worry. People won't criticize you for writing poorly documented
> > code. At most they'll criticize your code, and the more eager one may also
> > send patches of comments. Publishing the source would make it more usable
> > for UNIX people. But it's your call.
> >
> > > However, I remind everyone that it's not a
> > > production solver because it takes so long to solve each deal. It's only
> > > for when someone wants to see a (near-)optimal atomic-move solution to a
> > > particular deal.
> > >
> >
> > Why do you say (near)-optimal? If it uses Breadth-first search, then it
> > will produce an optimal solution.
> >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Danny A. Jones ( dajones at inreach dot com )
> > >
> > > PS: Meta-moves are on my "To Do" list for this solver.
> > >
> >
> > Hmmm... Freecell Solver can also utilize BrFS for meta-moves scans:
> >
> > # fc-solve --method bfs
> >
> > Now, for atomic moves using your solver may make more sense because your
> > solver is minimalistic and so may be faster. Meta-moves however, have
> > their own internal complexity and overhead, which probably makes the
> > overall Freecell Solver modularity complexity negligible.
> >
> > So I'm not sure if taking the effort to implement them, would be worth
> > your while. From what I tried running bfs with meta-moves, the number of
> > states vs. the depth grew up very quickly for all initial positions I
> > tried.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Shlomi Fish
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Shlomi Fish shlomif_at_vipe.technion.ac.il
> > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> > <http://t2.technion.ac.il/%7Eshlomif/>
> >
> > An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two
> > doctors away.
> >
> > Falk Fish
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish shlomif_at_vipe.technion.ac.il
Home Page:
http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two
doctors away.
Falk Fish
Received on Wed Sep 10 2003 - 11:37:46 IDT